Announced at Comicon. Now I can stop monkeying around trying to get GGPO to work and wait.

The last great Street Fighter game finally gets it's time to shine.

Here's to hoping they use GGPO!

Holy fuck I might have to re-buy a console now.

A lot of people on the various sites I support are excited about this but I suspect much of the enthusiasm will diminish when people realize that SF3 actually requires skill.

Doubtful.

It's a gorgeous game and fun in it's own right.

3 as a series never got the audience it deserved outside of Japan thanks to arcades being dead in the West when it released; and completely bungled console releases. Capcom thought they were still a King Maker in 1999 when they released SF3 on the Dreamcast, and that system was destined to fail; and it did. Then in 2002 Capcom released SF Anniversary Collection so that PS2/Xbox owners could finally enjoy the glory of SF3.

Legends never die.

Yep I own SF Anniversary Collection for the first Xbox although it no longer works on my 360. For some strange reason when Microsoft stopped supporting original Xbox games on Live this last April Anniversary stopped working on the newer Xbox 360 even off-line.

I played a little SF 3 on my Dreamcast (I own the Japanese version) and on the Xbox but the game never worked very well with either system’s stock controller. I also didn’t like the new characters enough to try to acquire an acceptable fight pad or stick.

From what I understand, as fighting games like 3S became too complex fans lost interests. That kinda explains the huge success of SF IV.

It is still one of the top ten arcade games in Japan, Grizz. But yeah, they have a pretty hardcore community. Hopefully, this will be a perfect arcade port. I do not really need or want a remix. Well, maybe make Chun's SA2 one bar and her SA1 two bars. Meh.

I just hope they ask the Japanese pros for balance suggestions and not the general public (myself included, of course).

Very excited.

Holy shit now I can stop pretending to like SF4 cause it's the only game with comp. jkjk

No seriously. Fuck you SF4. Fuck you right in the ass.

Look on the bright side. If we had not bought SF4 and SSF4, CAPCOM would neglect the fighting game community for another ten years before releasing SF5 and 3S would have not been ported so early. And yeah, this project was demanded by Yoshinori Ono. I give that man a lot of credit and like his direction with the Darkstalkers tease.

SF4 sucked. SSF4 is pretty good.

I just hope they don't screw up the port.

I've been webcrawling for SF33S videos. That game was IN-FUCKING-SANE. I used to watch some of the old tourney vids but didn't realize how crazy it could get. 8-break charge partitions, Remy dashing up and back tossing LOV and then RK from what appears to be standing. Urien juggling people for like 8 seconds at a time. Yun and Dudley not much less. 50%, 60%, 70% and higher combo damage. Nuts! I realize most people aren't going to even approach the level of skill required to pull off this magic, but still... I agree that getting balance suggestions rather than just pumping out a port is a very good idea. Some of the stuff I saw in vids (hitting people high and low simultaneously f.e., literally what appeared to be a perfect unblockable attack) seemed honestly broken.

I actually just want a strait port. BUT, if CAPCOM has to revamp it in any way, they need suggestions for the pros ... not from a poll at Capcom-Unity. And yeah, 3S is pretty insane/awesome. That is what I like about it. When I meant screwing up the port, I actually meant more towards the lag and maintaining original mechanics and speed.

Street Fighter 3 was not warmly received initially in arcades. Combine that with the fact that the game was also competing against far more popular titles like Tekken and X-Men Vs. Street Fighter at that time and it didn't get a chance to find an audience until a decade later. It was not uncommon to find Tekken and Versus machines in the remaining arcades here at the time, but SF3 machines were a rarity. I only every played 2nd Impact once while on a trip to Chicago. Compare that to how ubiquitous SF2 machines were, corner stores, video stores, theaters, arcades; everybody had a SF2 machine in the lobby.

Take off the nostalgia glasses. SF2 was all new characters at the time as well. The only playable characters in SF1 were Ryu and Ken. Everybody else was all new. Street Fighter 3 continued that tradition by ditching everybody buy Ryu / Ken initially and slowly added older characters back into the roster. If you take of the rose tinted goggles of nostalgia and play the game as the next installment of the series, instead of as SF2 with better graphics you'll find it's a great sequel.

It was great gaining a reputation as a solid Necro player at the arcade when everybody was picking Ryu and Ken.

It moved away from the high combo aerial garbage of the garbage Capcom versus games. It ditched all the useless pandering to the fans and bullsh*t like air blocking of the Alpha series. It was pure Street Fighter.

A big part of the reason I can't take SF4 seriously is because Capcom banked so hard on nostalgia, they essentially remade SF2 with worse graphics and some Alpha characters.

I maintain they also failed miserably at making the game accessible to new players. The fundamental aspect of the parry system in 3 is accessible to novice and pro alike, but the Focus Attack, then Focus Attack Dash Cancel BS of SF4 just introduces a technical barrier that makes the technique largely useless to novices. Blech!

BlazBlue is a much more rewarding game for novices.

Screw all this rebalancing talk. They need to leave the game the way it is. The game was being played in tourneys for what, over 8 years? And they were still finding new stuff in it.

Many have credited SF IV for reinvigorating the fighting game genre specifically because it plays similarly enough to SF II to spark nostalgia. Personally I enjoy SSF IV because I’m able to adapt many of my old school Street Fighter 2: Turbo tactics from 15 years ago and find some moderate level of success.

Graphically I believe the Street Fighter IV games are amazing and far superior to any previous iteration. Just to be sure I popped in Super Street Fighter II: The New Challengers in my SNES and Street Fighter Alpha 3 in my PS2 for comparison and it wasn’t even close. Super Street Fighter IV is clearly the better looking game to all but the most ardent 2D enthusiasts or those suffering from a severe case of nostalgia.

My sense is that SF IV and Super have found success with modern gamers because of their more casual nature and while SF III On-line may drain off some of the hardcore it’ll probably fail to be the sensation that the newer games have been.

You couldn't be more wrong Pete.

The appreciation of sprite based game graphics isn't nostalgia. SF2 looks gorgeous for a game released in 1992. SF3 still looks gorgeous because it has the most frames of animation per character of any video game. SFA series still holds up due to gorgeous art direction. Never mind all the gorgeous background stages and beautiful art that comprised these games.

2D sprite gaming is an art form.

Everything going 3D is bullsh*t! It would be the same if the art world stopped painting all in favor of sculpture. It's bullsh*t and another reason why gaming as an entertainment medium will never be a valid art form IMO. Too much group think, board room shenanigans, and laziness.

In era of high resolution displays and massive potential for visually amazing sprite based games, it's a crying shame most companies have abandoned the art form.

King of Fighters XIII is a thing of beauty!

I don't want to live in a world where a beautiful game like that couldn't exist because executives want more FPS games, regurgitation of old formulas, and hideously textured polygons that lack any sort of charm or character.

I pray they don't try to give 3rd strike the "SF2:HD" remix treatment. That game looks fucken stupid. Like the shit was made in flash. Except for Blanka. Blanka looks sickkkkkk.

Just port the shit with good netcode and the endless battle type shit we got in SSF4 and I will be more than happy.

Agreed, albeit an esoteric one.

2D gaming is alive and well and thanks to the Wii and DS not in any danger of dying off any time soon.

I also agree that SF II and SF III looked good in their day but I applaud Capcom for going in a new direction with SF IV. To my eyes SF IV is a beautiful and thoroughly modern looking game that didn’t sell out like Street Fighter: The Movie did.

Combos in SF3, especially 3S, are more complex (and potentially broken, i.e. 60% and more with one successful attack) than in either the 2 arc or the 4 arc. Also, there was no air blocking in the 2 arc, nor is there in the 4 arc, but 3 actually has air blocking through the parry system. Given that NO other iteration of "pure" Street Fighter has had this, I have to say you're reaching heavily here.


You're focusing on the high-level technical aspects of play and ignoring the low-level things that are more accessible to new players. The length of time most jump-in hits leave an opponent vulnerable in 4 and S4 is longer than most of the 3 arc (this was one of the reasons the 3 arc had short jumps, which I admit I really wish S4 had). Special attack inputs, including Super and Ultra motions, are much more forgiving and can be done more slowly in 4/S4 than they could in the 3 games. Parries took less hand dexterity, but MUCH better timing, than initiating a FADC, which doesn't have to be synced to the instant an attack contacts your hitbox. The high-level aspects of play are always going to be more accessible to skilled players than to new ones; parrying is no exception. I would say that 4/S4 are easier games to get into than basically any prior edition of SF, including most of the 2 and Alpha arc, both of which had pretty strict special and combo timing requirements after 2CE. This said, I totally agree with your last statement. BlazBlue 4life!

Quote from Event Hubs.


I hope they will finally use GGPO. If STHD used GGPO, online play might not have been trash.


Yeah, that sounds about right. It got popular ever since the first Japanese Nationals before they rebranded themselves to SBO. It has also consistently maintained its top ten position within the eight years. Pretty impressive for a eleven year old game. Too bad it did not get popular for three years and CAPCOM decided to neglect the SF community.


Just play with the old sprites like I do. The background looks pretty good. My friends and I play on the old mechanics and turn off widescreen as well. The combination is actually a great port of ST. It is a shame that EVO chose the Remix as the standard. And no old characters makes my O. Ken weep.


We should mass message s-kill. They also need to upscale the game. Otherwise, our HDTV would create lag.

Speaking of reaching.

Parrying ≠ Air Block, the parry always confers the advantage to the more skilled player. Air blocking is a bullsh*t concession to whiners who wanted to jump in all day for free and not be punished. Granted if you didn't leave the ground you could top the air block, but that removed a lot of the fun of SF for me in the Alpha series. Alpha was pure geek pandering, right down to the cheese victory icons for players that whined "cheap" when they got ticked to death.

I loved SF3 because it changed up the boring SF2 zoning mechanics with parrying, dashing, and high jumping. All very KoF influenced decisions and it was a much better series for it. 4 is a return to game mechanics I played to death and lost the love for, with some minor concessions to fans of 3; but still conferring the same dull advantages to the same boring old characters.

As for combo damage, I don't mind. The better player is winning. It's a fighting game, and now that we're not in arcades the only loss is pride. Not actual money per play. SF4 still has similar high damage combos and the better player is going to win; but at a novice level you're boned.

I got pwned in a T.Hawk vs. Cody match by a Cody player who kept me out all day with rocks and stuffed my jump ins with an AA kick. If this were 3 I could parry his rocks all day for free and make him come to me, instead of getting completely stuffed. Neutral jumping is boring and doesn't impose on his zoning game, and you take tick damage if you block. If I had access to a higher jump like 3 I could more effectively close the distance. That is why I love 3 so much. Make spammers work for their meal.

Not that 3S is perfect, when Capcom switched to command throws and whiffs instead of instant throws I hated that, and generally cannot stand multiple button input commands in SF games in general. Be it a throw, taunt, or FA. Just seems to be a needless crib from 3D fighters which require those sorts of inputs due to different game design decisions.



I agree that in any fighting game any low level player is going to experience frustration playing a more experienced player. SF4 is no better or worse than any other that has come before it in that regard. Especially with the insane timing for combos and some of the stuff you practice in Trial mode. Which on paper should be helping you improve your game.

Ugh. . . I miss the good old days when Alpha series was sh*t and I could just play the main series. Now the main series is completely off my radar as well.

Oh well, BlazBlue and KoFXIII should fill the void.

Also hopefully VF5:FS gets a home release as that's the only 3D fighter I give a damn about. SC is a fun distraction but still too Namcotarded™ for my taste.

Grizz, SF4 is the ugliest fucking game I've ever seen. There's a difference between graphics and aesthetics, and while SF4's graphics are ACCEPTABLE for the era (hardly outstanding) its aesthetics are execrable. I'm not sure I'd agree that the SF2 series is better looking overall, but anyone who thinks that SF4 looks better than the SF3 series clearly has no aesthetic sense.
You can tell if a game has actual good art design because it never stops looking good. Look at the old LucasArts adventures now, and even though they're obviously dated they still look GOOD. Half Life 2 still looks better than nearly any FPS made by a company that isn't Valve. Graphics technology is worthless if it isn't put in the service of strong aesthetic sense. Blizzard makes a habit of targeting lower level hardware than their competitors, but still makes a product that looks just as good, in many cases better, through clever usage of cartoony aesthetics.

SF4's look is just SF2 as a bunch of action figures with terrible jerky-ass animation. Every time I see it I can't understand how people like that animation, it's so floaty and jerky.

Yeah parry != air block, not even comparable.

60%+ combos are combo vid material, shit only happens once a blue moon in a tourney. And if it does the dude probably deserved it because he's got execution like a machine and his opponent messed up bad.

Kobel, I’ve got a little bit of artistic (aesthetics) sense having been an art student before switching my major to electronic engineering and I honestly like SF IV and Super’s visuals better than any previous iteration. I readily admit that my opinion and 5 bucks might buy you a cup of coffee at Stabucks but for what it’s worth I genuinely do prefer the new look to even that of the highly regarded SF III.

Just to be sure, though, I played some 3rd Strike on my Xbox 360 with my Madcatz fight stick today and the art direction, while appropriate to the series’ roots, still seems dated after SF IV. Again, just my opinion but that’s always what art really boils down to anyway.

While I wish SF III: On-line much success, at the end of the day I suspect it’ll probably do about as well as Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix did.

Anyone with a quarter worth of tuition can become an art student.
Look up the term 'weight' as it relates to animation.
Notice SF4's animation is terrible
???
Profit

The models are defensible. The animation isn't. Going from SF3's beautiful animation to SF4's amateur hour makes me nauseous.

I’ve heard the “weight” issue discussed with regards to Super Smash Bros. Brawl too and in both instances I believe the concession was made in an attempt to hide lag during on-line play. Not sure but just a suspicion.

. . .

Fourth link, lazy.

Really, it's embarrassing when you think on it. Ken and Ryu animate so well in SF3. Do their clothes even move and react to their motion like they did in 3? :|

Edit: Did some googling and no, no they don't.





Serious fighting games with beautiful programming like BlazBlue can have fluid online battles with no bullshit spin. Good netcode makes all the difference in the world.

Translated: "I don't know what I'm talking about."

Yeah I think Greg already made that clear in a previous post. At the very least he proved that I was too lazy to look the term up my self.

But here’s the good news, those of you that love SF III’s animation will eventually be able to relive them in glorious HD when SF III: On-line is released. Just be sure to give it the support it so richly deserves.

I may triple dip on it's release when I get around to replacing my Warhawk player. Definitely buying XBL version and when the day comes PSN as well. I got my marching orders.

The visuals of HL2 always bugged me to no end. This is one of the first youtube videos I looked up, and you can see everything that bothered me in it. Stiff animation, brightness/contrast on the lighting is way too high, and when the over-saturated lighting isn't washing them out the textures are hyper-rendered with a ridiculous amount of pores. These problems are generally endemic to realistic video games, though animation tends to be either too stiff or too floaty depending on whether it was primarily mo-capped or keyframed. Props to Valve for at least key-framing.

To this day, TF2 is the only game made in Source that I think looks good.

Everything else you said is right and Grizz is stupid as always, I just wanted to address that one bit. The SF4 engine is ridiculously ugly, and the models look retarded.

The rigging on them is terrible, too. I basically hate pretty much everything about SF4, visually.

All of the issues you stated may be valid, but considering you admit that the same applies to most other FPS games and I was only comparing it to other FPS games I'm not sure if you're really contradicting me here
I'll freely admit that HL2 isn't the strongest animated game on the block, but I contend that the world design is pretty fucking hard to beat.

Wow, this thread is getting a little too nerdy even for me and I can push a pencil on paper a little and sculpt recognizable 3D figures in clay. If the consensus here is that Street Fighter IV isn’t visually compelling then it’s time for me to bow out.

Besides, I already own SF III on two different consoles so I see little reason to purchase it again just for on-line support when I genuinely prefer SSF IV’s more causal friendly gameplay anyway.

No offense Grizz, but I think the guys shouting you down here are a little bit stronger artists
(Those last few words were going to be image links but I have no idea where Greg or Jason are keeping their portfolios nowadays...)

Haha, good point.

Mirrors Edge, TF2, and Borderlands are all better examples of aesthetics in the FPS genre, I'd say, though admittedly two of those eschew realism entirely so they aren't the greatest counterpoints. Rapture is cool but BioShock's got a bad case of that whole shiny/plastic thing that Unreal games tend to have. Switch it up to TPS and I can think of way more, but honestly as a genre FPS is visually pretty bland and more concerned with pushing polygons than advancing an aesthetic viewpoint. Insert standard "desaturated palettes" criticism here.

LOL@Grizz trying to pull out the "nerd" card when the conversation veers towards technical discussion where he gets totally lost. Nice scorpion man, though, it's totally relevant to the discussion at hand.

If you're gonna be like that, you leave me no choice.

True horror:

Awesome Ryu.

Great rushdown, even against Yun. Too bad none of them can parry the Denjin.

That Makoto was trash. Yun was pretty bad too. : (

But damn do I love 3rd strike man. Rush down just feels so much smoother. In Sf4, if you throw someone, the game comes to a fucken screeching halt.

I think it's because SF4's wakeup game is a lot stronger compared 3S, which had a strong oki game. I don't even think there were any invincible reversals in 3S. 3S also didn't have FADC as insurance.

But yeah, since this game will not come out any time soon, I will just post random videos and discussions.

I'll be honest, I really didn't like any of the SF3 arc. Didn't like the character designs, didn't like the new super effects and most of all didn't like the awfully-done faux hip-hop soundtrack and lame-ass announcer. I understand the game is an artistic achievement and a fantastic exposition of skill, it just totally turned me off. The one thing I will say SF3-arc had that SF4-arc needs is defensive ground rolling. I think that's why the wake-up struggles in 4 and S4 seem so much more intense than 3, because when you're knocked down you're stuck where you are. Capcom apparently agrees with me, since SF x Tekken has ground rolling on knockdown. Maybe they'll patch it into S4.

I also think BlazBlue's animation style is much more enjoyable than SF3's. Again, I am not an artist and I know this is an uneducated hick-town opinion, but it is honestly how I feel. I prefer fewer frames, but each frame conveying a strong sense of motion - sometimes motion too fast for the eye to follow - than a glut of individually drawn frames which are then shown so fast they look spastic and rubbery. Some of Elena's knockdown animations being a good example. Kurenai did an illustration of a swordsman moving backwards, blade held out to parry, and looking very overbalanced to the rear. I don't know what topic it is in or I'd post it here. That was a great example of a single image which nonetheless conveyed a strong sense of motion.

Speak of animation though, it's funny to watch that Ken Shinryuken glitch vid above and note just how awful the body movements are when you can see them in slow motion. It's like a kid playing with an action figure. (This said, I still find SSF4 fun to play.)

Sorry, reading post on Droid and composing from computer.

I know it's your opinion Jon and it's tough / silly to argue over them, but this is a discussion board and hopefully I can express this without sounding like a ninny.

Aruging against more frames of animation is just plain silly. I think what seperates SF3 from other CPS3 games and ASW games is the number of in between frames between key frames. Which generally makes things look smoother.

Hugo, one of my favorite characters, is a good example of a seemingly over animated character; but in animation the body language, movement, and gesture all lend to selling a character's personality. So Hugo is a big gesticulating mass of crazy muscles eager to clobber things.

Elena is the most amazing 2D expression of the incredible Capoeira martial art style. As a point of reference Capcom's previous attempt at Capoeira - Blanka. ("Blanka's style of fighting in the games is a self-taught savage fighting style; however, Capcom's USA division depicted it as a Capoeira technique.")

If Capcom USA can give Poison a penis, then we have to let them give Blanka capoeira.

If you peruse Fighters Generation SF3 sprite gallery and pay attention to the key frames; you'll see characters are every bit as expressive as BB/GG characters. Just with more frames between the keys. Also it's not just animation for the sake of MY GOD COUNT THOSE FRAMES OF ANIMATION, there's also deformation of characters to express motion and action without actually animating it.

When I play an ASW game I can see more clearly which characters the dev team paid more attention to, and which ones they just seemingly grudgingly included. The animation quality between characters varies wildly, and my favorite - Tager could benefit from more in between frames since he's such a LARGE character and just comes off as wooden due to lack of frames.

I seem to recall Hakumen also being similarly slighted in terms of animation frames.

Hopefully Kurenai doesn't come in here and beat the ever living snot out of me for talking out of turn.

I hope that clears things up a little. All 2D games can only benefit from more frames of animation. If 3D gaming is all about depth of field, lighting effects, polygon counts, etc. it's the obvious evolution of the true 2D game. Not selling me polygons constrained to a limited play field.

A big problem I have with polygons constrained to a limited play field is they play by the same rules of other 3D games. It's no longer an expression of a world through the filter of the games artist, it is a game world. There is space and volume, there is a defined light source, etc.

I hate to sound like a simpleton; but watching SF3 and asking myself - WHY DOES THIS LOOK GOOD, outside of "I like sprites"; and the answer is visual contrast. There's a select color range for each character that makes them pop against the backgrounds. It seems that the color iconography is a big part of the game design process that affects my appreciation for a game.

In SF4 the skin textures all look like they're made of wood or on some characters when they camera zooms in they look like they have a terrible rash / skin disease. More important, the characters don't pop despite Dimps best efforts to create Ratchet & Clank style 3D versions of SF icons.

The skin and clothing textures don't sell me on anything and they certainly don't make the game look closer to the concept art, which I think is entirely possible with 2010's game technology. Look at last generation's Zelda game for Gamecube. It was one of the best instances of cell shading in any game and the colors and animation really sold it as "this looks like a cartoon" as opposed to Jet Set Radio's low polygon model characters with black outlines, that just looked like a Saturn/PSX game with everything outlined in black.

Never mind the backgrounds. The backgrounds added for S4 are much better than the ones found in Vanilla, which were completely lacking character. Characters. Not to mention the background characters don't share a consistent visual style in them as the rest of the game characters. You could argue that this is to help the characters pop out, but looking at evolved 2D fighters you'll see background stages with an insane variety of characters and body shapes, also sometimes fun cameos!





As for the terrible Canadian rappers that have pooped up SF3:3S, as someone that has a history with the series starting with SF3:NG that wasn't always there and I don't like it either. However once you get past the intro and character select screen the actual game music is solid.

I've had it argued to me that 3S Candian rappers help sell the "Street" in Street Fighter. To each his own I guess, but honestly - "street" ≠ RAPMOOZICS kids. The Warriors was a great movie about street gangs and street fights sans the presence of booty humpin' jams. Y'know?

This is why I'm hoping Capcom just does a Street Fighter 3 Collection with all three iterations of the game; because there's a lot of great art and music a lot of the world didn't get to see!

I don't really have much to add here, really. I like the animation and designs in both SF3 and GG for different reasons, but honestly I just like seeing sprites animating and so they both win in that regard. I haven't played BB because GG made me want to break controllers and at some point I decided I don't like getting horribly stressed out by videogames. As a result I can't comment on it at all. I do find it unfortunate that a lot of the remaining sprite-based games are so frustrating to play - BB, VanillaWare's output, etc. - because I want to enjoy them but can't.

There is one line I want to address:

There are actually a few reasons to argue against more frames. One is that it can make actions seem floaty - it's a common freshman animation mistake, you want to animate all of the various follow through actions during a motion and then when you shoot it, it looks like the character is underwater. Inbetweening in general can slow down animation and diminish the impact of a movement, it kind of does to animation what clean-up line does to an energetic sketch. You almost always lose energy in the process. As a result, I'd rather see fewer well placed frames than everything just evenly inbetweened, personally. Obviously great inbetweening is the gold standard but it's rare to see in videogames.

There's a place for animating on ones, but animating on ones is a trickier business than you'd think and it really should be reserved for quick movements and other areas where it's necessary. Richard Williams was crazy with the animating on ones and I don't think it really did him any favors, despite some spectacular animation coming from his studio.

I agree that Capcom failed to capture that ink blotchy concept art look they were going for with 4. It's a little better in the MvC3 videos I've seen; they push the blacks more and give it more of a comic-book feel, but it still doesn't knock my socks off or anything.

I guess this is the difference in a trained artist's eye and that of a twangtown hick. To me, it looks exactly like "MY GOD COUNT THOSE FRAMES OF ANIMATION," and I'm like, yeah guys, you can draw. I knew that in the 1990's, cheers.

You're right, arguing a point of opinion, especially from someone who up front is willing to say he knows his opinion is uninformed by comparison to experts, in this case accredited artists, is pointless.

Letting the rest of the issues lie... shouldn't really even have bothered with this post. You know better and I know that. The game just rubbed me the wrong way - and for the record, that's going all the way back to Street Fighter 3, not just sourced in 2I or 3S.

Eh, I actually did like the designs of GG more than I liked the cast of SF3. The only characters in SF3 I really liked were Chun Li and Dudley. Guttah trahsh!

Clearly I am wrong, though, as the rest of the world has declared Ryu and Akuma the greatest character designs to grace fighting games. So what do I know.

I'm not a fan of GG's goofy anime design conventions, ie Slayer's crazy shelf hair. There's a lot of good ideas, but they're mixed in with a lot of kind of ugly stuff; overall I like the designs anyway, but not as much as I would if the same basic ideas were drawn out by someone WITHOUT ADHD. SF3 has the exact opposite problem, but I like a number of the designs anyway, and Elena is always good for a pantsplosion IMO.

Thanks for elaborating Kurenai. Always interesting read.



No worries man. It's a discussion board, I intended no malice. Just wanted to have a chat.

All three (four if you count Sakura) of the Shotoclones are dorkbisuits. Yes, Sakura too. Didn't like her in Alpha, don't now. Karin was a much more entertaining obligatory moei entry. You know who I like of the seemingly never-ending stream of Shoto fighters? Sheng Long aka Gouken. He's actually a defensive fighter, unlike the rest, and seems much less about fireball pressure and more about trickiness and patience. He's got some MAD damage combos that are actually quite simple to do, plus, in his alt 2 outfit, he grips the edge of his hat when landing from a Tatsu.


Oh none taken. Hey, I also totally forgot about that Prototype code. My bad. E-mailing that to you right now.

They put Gouken in a SF game?
...And he's Chinese?

I will probably drop sf4 forever when this drops. Can't wait to do Q's SAIII on people online. Danger!