Sandstorm vs. Oozaru was probably the most entertaining fight of the first heat!

I'm sure Franko's got some feedback and comments to make concerning the first heat too.

I can honestly say that its always entertaining to see two massive heavies beating the crap out of each other. I think thats what PD was speculationg about If memory serves me right that set of matches was extremely close. Probably one of the closest in the FT. This Ft was probably one of our shorter ones but it didnt make it any less memorable. I felt bad for the Ac's that were matched up against the Walrus boys. Jesus christ I didn't think there could be anything that could make me Feel dirty while piloting, but damn those Walrus spartoi bullies, sure made me feel sorry for the poor bastards that they were facing.

Curse you, Blues Mage.



Just kidding. I told you that your chances were better than you made it sound.

It sounds like both ACs were well played. The Rifle unfortunately just can't keep pace with any Sniper, and my mobility advantage was nullified.

To whichever one of you played Gauntlet: How do you feel the AC plays? Do you think that there were any significant problems? Is it fun to play?

Delv: Congrats for the round 2 victory against Hellmouth! Shame about the other two rounds, but considering Hellmouth is considered one of the most potent types of builds, any victory is a major one.

Thanks for giving Gauntlet a shot. Hope running this was enjoyable. Have fun guys, and good luck to all.

Well I'm out. I was hoping to get past the first round but wasn't really expecting much from a heavy with NX's paper like armor, very limited mobility, and severe heat issues. Thanks for trying guys! I can find comfort in the fact the AC is at least twice as effective in NB with the def, mobility and heat changes.

Congrats Booyaka!

Holy Crap! I won by 0 to 0.
Yup, it was entertaining by far. Good game Thorne.
I liked how you wrote everything .
I'm going against Blues Javelin next .
.
.
.
Ky Kiske and his evil deeds............

Looks like great matches so far, everybody!

'True, I honestly expected your advantage in vertical mobility and greater versatility to take care of me, especially with the Giant essentially out of the picture. Cover saved my ass and that's about it .

Wong, I hope that our match ups are as good as both of our first-rounds. Good luck, everybody.

True: Franko handled Gauntlet that match, but if I remember right I think what he said was that he really liked the speed of the AC, but he wasn't really feeling the rifle. The golem was too punishing against it at range and it got outdamaged in close by the giant. I think his only complaint was the rifle. He prefers other weapons (mg's or shotties) so he can bulldoze more easily. I think that with the amount of speed Gauntlet had, the rifle could very well have worked as a good pecking weapon until someone got close enough to break them off some s2 lovin'. In fact, I'd wager that against either one of the two weapons Javelin was packing, Gauntlet could have managed a victory more easily, but the combination of the two and the super speed of Javelin kinda nullified Gauntlets Jack-of-all-trades style. I do think that it could have gone either way, though.

*edit*: just saw Franko's response. Yeah once the rifle was tossed Gauntlet was too heavy on the left I think. It kept getting a weird moment that made it slide too hard to one side. I think it was a brakes/stability problem that got compounded by one arm being pulled down harder than the other. Weight distribution was a big thing back in SL, and we're both thinking it's probably the same sort of deal in NX.

Kuroi: Upset of the century! We honestly did not think CJ could take down Iceman. We were figuring CJ (piloted by me) would run out of ammo and I'd never get anywhere close enough to use the sword. Luckily I tried to take advantage of the lack of a left hand weapon whenever I sprung out of cover. I realized that Iceman's offense was wholly based on weapons that needed time to lock, and I tried to use that second or so of dead-air to zoom in, strike, and get somewhere where retaliation would be difficult. Needless to say, CJ was flying all over the damn place.

Ky: Yeah we had a friend over to watch the fights, and he was really impressed with how hard I was fighting in the Hellmouth vs. Requiem match. I literally tried everything I could think of, especially in that third round, but man...NX really shows it's flaws in that setting. I think that was one of those matches that couldn't go any other way, no matter what. I don't really have a major problem with cetus though, or even selena or 1 spartoi. But 2x spartoi on walrus2? Weak sauce, man. Funny to note though, is that when Franko saw Ravager he said, "well shit is he's gonna make an S-Class hover like that, he may as well use two spartoi too. That hydra is completely useless when you see how far away spartois still work. If you're gonna be gay, may as well be flaming."

About the "sliding" and all that...I'm guessing its something I'm just too used to, or maybe just not paying attention to. Don't really notice...though it could explain why dodging is weird, for lack of a better term.

I wasn't able to make it for this. But I would've lost money in Vegas on this one.

I was certain Soyaabi was the wildcard and thought it would get further than most would've thought. Guess not. I don't think it was that big of an upset between Kuroi and Boo, but I would have put my money on Iceman. Thought the first opponents had a chance against WALRUS2 AC's, but its a no brainer who was favored to win. I knew the Sandstorm vs Oozaru was going to be one heck of a fight, but Sandstorm to pull a tough win. Gauntlet vs Javelin was a tough one to call though, and so was the GAEA match-up.

Interesting. I wish I was there to lend a hand.

yeah i actually dumped the rifle right away on that round and worked the pilars to get rid of the bazooka shots. The third match was a pain in the ass because the cover wasn't as plentiful and that hover has amazing rising ability. I thought i could take it, kinda figuered that hovers would have limited rising ability like in the previous game but that was not the case. The damn thing was zipping around all over the place. THird round I actually used the rifle till the hover was at about half AP, then i went in with the silph. It was still a pain in the ass to catch, he played the range game once the bazooka was gone, Its awesome mobility kept it away from the silph shotgun blast.

Watcher and True: Yeah, I'm a rifleman myself, and I've gotten great results with them. Same for Watcher. Thing is, the Gauntlet/Javelin match was one of those weird matches were if Javelin stuck to it's main strategy, which wasn't a particularly difficult one to maintain in these matches, Gauntlet was simply going to get one-upped at one end of the other. If Gauntlet had only made the single change of a right arm mg or shotty, it would almost definitely have won the fight. Of course, that's generally the case in NX, hehe. Personally I think the rifle is fine as is, just make sure to drag Javelin into a dark alley if you have to face it.

Ky: But the thing is, once you're using S-Class originality has no place. That's basically what Franko is saying, and I more or less agree. If someone is that bent on making a power design, it may as well be as exploitative as possible; no half-stepping. Franko lives by that statement when it comes to AC. The hydra missiles are nice, and I feel they are potent missiles, but as far as NX is concerned the spartoi are the generally (arguably absolute) superior missile pack. They work just as well in the same capacity, with the added bonus or working at closer ranges, as well as being a lot lighter. The spartoi even work better behind cover than the multis. Lastly, since you bring up the extra speed, the spartoi usually empty faster than multis too, and are almost always a viable choice in your offense, no matter the situation. That isn't the case with multis. Of course, if a number fetish is what is driving you, than I've got no counter argument for that, haha. I've noticed that once you start building outside of S- and A-Class, parts outside of those classes progressively become more useful. Parts that don't normally get nods suddenly seem to get good effect in tandem with other not-so-obvious choices. This was more or less true in SL as well, I believe.

Watcher: Yeah but imagine some AC with Spartoi and rm3 for missiles with the same rifle (OW or not), with a sylph in the right hangar, s2 on the left, and maybe a finger or sylph in the left hangar. That AC could very easily just toss the rifle, spam the missiles off, and be on par with A-Class rushers while still being considered D-Class. Like I mentioned to you before, I don't think Gauntlet is a good example of how to exploit that type of rule. True wants a classier setup that's not exploitative and so it's not apparent from it what could be done.

I know. Thats why I'm trying to find the proper and reasonable rule for those designs while not mis-classifying designs like Gauntlet into B-Class category. It may end up going in that direction, but for now I'm checking to see if theres a reasonable way around it. Gauntlet is indeed not a good example of exploiting the system, but its going for that same ride into B-Class along with the true exploit designs if I make S2 an auto B. I'm trying to prevent that.

Leave it to Franko to rush in guns blazing with what is essentially a defensive AC
Or I assume he was playing Stomper anyway.

Kobel: Haha, well he played it defensive and Spidermonkey managed to trump it at that. It's not easy to play a defensive game against an AC like Spidermonkey. You poke your head out and GLL or wyrm rounds fly at you, take cover and missiles will come whirling around the corner. The way Franko played it was by 1) moving in slowly working the cover heavily, and 2) dropping the grenade launcher and smashing in hard and fast. The second strategy in particular was how he won the second round. I dunno, you can't really blame him for going guns blazing. Defensive wasn't doing the trick, and charging in did win him a round.

Well, that's how he plays the game. Can't fault him on that

*EDIT: Second round results are in!*

Ky: Well, I'm all for originality, don't get me wrong. I also definitely agree with what you are saying, up until the NX S-Class ACs. Even as far back as AC1 I'd agree with your statement, because I'd argue that in all previous AC games the power designs were not so far above well-thoughtout and original designs that you may as well not even play the game if you had to face one. In fact even in SL both Watcher and I proved that you didn't have to use power designs to see success against them (which we both fought several of at MoC4). Hell, ask Sandman about the MoC4 after-party in San Diego. He got to see top-tier players using power designs against players of equal skill in non-power designs and still pull wins consistently. And this is in SL no less!

When it comes to S-Class ACs in NX though, they are head-and-shoulders above even A-Class ACs. Especially because S-Class ACs wreak of tackiness. If someone is willing to use such a powerful AC, than why bother with originality? They've already proven they want to win more than anything else, even if they don't even want to earn the win.

Using AA as an example, the power design of the time (missileboat RJ with a gn210/night/k-saw) had many choices on the backmounts. Even more importantly, the non-power designs could hang as long as the person handling it was willing to actually play the game. This isn't as easily the case in NX.

You raise a very good point though and again I say that I agree for the most part. I simply can't agree on the issue of NX S-Class ACs, though.

BTW, I think NX has worse balance issues than SL. Take that, Ky!

I got pwned

Nexus is a such a difficult game to do an FT. Player preference runs deeper than the weapons in this game. And this game managed to make "streamlining" a part of its mechanics, meaning this part must go with that part and not that part, etc. Thus, player style becomes streamlined too.

Cooling is going to be preference based; some people will have more tolerance for a certain level of heat than others--I for one prefer to practically max out my frame cooling. Another is that different generators give different feel to the AC, so jumping from one AC to the next with different generators is going to take adjusting. This happens to me with my ACs. I notice it almost seem like I take an instant loss with the first game after switching ACs when the generator is different. FTs will demand even more flexibility.

Judging from the match description regarding the defensive quad, it sounds like Franko managed to adapt to the circumstance as best he could with his ability.

I just thought it was an interesting fight and forgot a possible missile war between the two. Nothing more to it than that.

Anyway, I think hope lies with Spidermonkey to take out Ravager. Ravager's next opposition would be a design with similar effective range (either Can't Joust or Oozaru), and thats home of MGarms--although Oozaru's energy pack can come very useful against the one destined to win. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Well, the D-Class Machines have all been eliminated. The two S-Class Machines faced off, so only one could advance. The lone A-Class Machine seems unable to be stopped (Blues Mage: suure, only bring enough ammo to knock out Gauntlet... ). But, we still have a B-Class and a C-Class running around, and they've proven that they aren't pushovers.

So, we will now refer to Ravager and Oozaru as the "Bad Guys."

Good luck, y'all.

Congratulations to all opponents, and Ravager can retire at this point if preferred.

Penguin, a lot of people actually agree with you (NX being a less balanced game than SL). I don't share the opinion, but don't want to derail this thread with a side discussion about that. I'll definitely agree that Nexus is a game sadly brought down by its flaws, many of which are irritatingly worse in the world of Kai Online play. The only thing I would say in NX's defense is that its basic ideas are better than SL's IMO, just they are in many cases executed poorly enough that the end result falls into a chasm of flaws. You're totally entitled to a rebuttal, I'll let it lie, and please understand that no matter how firmly my opinions are rooted I have nothing but respect for you as a sportsman, player, and competitor. (Too often I forget to say things like this.)

If Ravager is not retired, I'll go ahead and spill the beans that he is facing his truly worst and deadliest enemy in SpiderMonkey. It will take considerable virtuoso skill to bring this matchup off for the Monkey, but it can be done. Bubba's had to fight variations on the matchup before, and come out victorious (if not consistently). I should be telling you how to play Ravager to beat SM, instead I'll tell you this: NEVER let Ravager get close under its own terms, EVER. Punish any attempt to close with a GLL double-tap (don't use missiles unless Rav is still outside 150ish meters, otherwise they'll sail off into the stars). At any sort of distance, whittle mercilessly with the WYRM and missiles - hook missiles around cover. Try to fire off the GLL usefully (the medium stability of WAL2 means both shots should hit if the first round is true), but use it as quick as possible to obtain SM's lighter, more dangerous form. Keep Rav from playing his dominant close game and pick him apart at a distance for the win.

Go SpiderMonkey, beat Ravager!

I'm away wrapping up some family issues and I come back to this. My first trip to the final four in an FT and I'm playing my traveling road dogs creation from the depths of hell, which just took out my other road dogs creation from hell... Welp, Ky pretty much laid out the game plan. I know it's already over, but I'll sound off anyway.

I've had a lot of practice against that type of machine and it has a great deal to do with why spidermonkey is built like he is. I still think Ky lends me too much credit, but the match is a winnable one as he says. The key is you actually have to be a bit cheesy and manipulate the double shot on the grenade launcher... DO NOT try to chase him down to do this, but flare the OB and shoot a double tap as he rushes, before the OB kicks in to take you away. Once at your location seek cover and conserve juice. Use the HNM to set the WYRM shots and do not be afraid to dump the GLL for max speed if you've had some success with it early... OR you've had a very bad go at it early and feel an AP win is required. try to keep him centered to you and the side shields will do a good job of dealing with the heat index. Belated good luck. It's a very hard fight, but one you can win with cover and room to create distance. Also Da Monkey can go airborn with WYRM/HNM for pretty impressive amounts of time when need be. Good luck Ky

... -btw- ha ha yes! I beat a Kobel AC! May have taken PD playing it for me, but I'll take anyway I can get it.


S.O.D.

Holy crap Can't Joust is still in this? lol

i thot for sure Ice Man woulda taken care of it. Sugar too lol.

well anywho Ooz ain gnna be that easy to beat; my ac is light with the ammo *like 48 missles and um... 232 bullets with about 260 power*

but either way this ft is working out pretty good.
GOO CAN'T JOUST!!!

SoD: The missile set Gehenna is using (rm3/spartoi) is definitely more potent than the 81g, in this case. Xanthoceras doesn't have an OB, and more importantly it has EOs that reduce it's mobility when active. I think you're making the wrong comparison by saying rm3/sylph against rm/81g. rm3/spartoi is a totally different beast from rm or gar with the same missile pack (far more devastating as well). Also, as far as mobility is concerned, Gehenna's speed was what let it move from cover to cover so effectively. As far as heat goes, I think what Franko didn't mention was where the heat was coming from. Namely missiles and twin sylphs. Heat always seems like a problem when either of those two is trained on an energy EO using core, especially since Xanthoceras didn't have the agility and cooling to finally get a bead on Gehenna long enough to force it to back off.

About the spidermonkey match, Xanthoceras has nothing on the wily quad in terms of speed or AMS. It should hardly be a surprise that Spidermonkey was able to avoid utter annihilation from the missile barrages, while Xanthoceras was not as fortunate. Xanthoceras has direct attacking power, but Gehenna managed to match it's offensive potential with it's missiles, and had the added advantage of speed. That same speed that let it swoop in with it's sylphs and avoid being decimated by the 81g's awesome hitting power.

I still feel it could have gone either way though, depending on which AC was played better and picked better map choices during that match.

Booyaka: Yeah your little AC has been putting on one hell of a show. I don't think anyone (including me) thought it would get nearly this far considering what it's had to face. Kudos man, that AC is a much smarter design than I thought at first glance.

Blues Mage: That hover is awesome man. I was surprised that it managed to hurt Oozaru as much as it did, but the ammo was just too shallow against such a behemoth of an AC.

Sandman: I used Spidermonkey it's first match, but Franko (not into quads much) used it the second match and it still advanced. What can I say, that quad is a badass and potentially the strongest version of it I've ever seen.

*want to see who won the tournamenttt........*


I'm not really surprised that my AC lost against SoD's - missiles are Xanthoceras's achilles heel, and that's a risk you always take when you run that AC. It's just that on fully loaded COUGAR2's, with no CAMS to speak of and just a measly 10 deeks, it's difficult or almost impossible to dodge a well executed missile barrage. I can think of no better missle setup in the tournament than that of Gehenna

Come on, though, I really want to see if Ravager ends up winning the whole tournament or not.. haha..

I'll have the last of the results posted today, don't worry Lotus.

Awesome show guys - sounds like some fun matches were to be had! Any reccomendations for Sand Storm?

Right around the day when you guys were to run these I noticed that I goofed in a big way on my generator tunes - did you run the G91 with 9 tunes on output or on capacity as I had mistakely indicated? Any comments on how the FCS performed -that particular compromise was my one big worry?

Thanks again!

Lotus: That's essentially what it came down to between Gehenna and Xanthoceras. Gehenna had the agility on Xanthoceras, but the missiles put Gehenna in the position it needed to swarm Xanthoceras and gun it down with it's sylphs (heat and AP lead). Without those missiles it would have been much harder to dive into battle and mix it up with Xanthoceras at close range.

Thorne: We ran the design the way it was posted the Thursday before the tournament. I think Sandstorm is a powerful design as is, actually. Oozaru barely squeezed out the victory in that battle. It even came down to who blew up first to see who lost! I can't think of any real recommendations for it (that won't raise it's design rank, anyhow).

I'll say a thing or two about a thing or two.

CJ-Possibly the biggest upset of the tournament. The little AC didn't look like much. Second heat both mike and I thought it was gonna get stomped. THe feeling of impending doom didn't keep me from playing my ass of with it. I love the combination of FCS and nymphe, kinda like the old highacs. First round was a lot of fun I think by the end of it there weren't many buildings standing. I tried my damdest to use buildings as decoys. Second round I got suckered into fighting at the bottom of the snowfield. MIke quickly took to the air and made sure i didn't come out of that place with life. The third round was one of my favorite round of the tournament. I took him to born city to use the buildings as missel sponges. IT was a long fight all of sugars ammo was depleted. We were both out of ammo in the final minute of the match. We decided to finish it of with a sword duel in the center of the city. WE met locked eyes. I dropped my m2 only to discover that a handgun was waiting. I quicky backstabbed mike and shot him up a few times when his ap was at about 100 i decided to finaly use the sword. another 30seconds of failed cuts followed then we finally hit each other Sugar died a treacherous treacherous death. Moral of the story in a knife fight the man with the gun always wins.

OOzaru vs javelin was a tough fight. NOt for me but mike who ended up using Javelin. Poor Javelin just didnt' have the ammo to take down the behemoth. Moral-always have enough ammo to kill 12 ACS.

SPidermonkeyVsGehena- Man this has got to be my favorite AC. I normaly dont give credit to most ACs but this one stands out. In a game of SHARKS where the baddest setups usually take the cake this little piranah manages to kick ass. I had a lot of fun piloting this guy Gll is a no brainer. But wyrm and left handed missels pure fucking genius. I dont think many people tried out these missels. I know I would have never given them a second glance but damn when they mess with the wyrm any mid or light will feel the stun. I'm not known as a tactical player but man using this lets me see why some of you like these TAC...TICS. Sometimes its fun to use your head and play. Moral-You dont need an AK to kill a man. A knife and a good hiding place will work just as well.

HOVERVSHOVER> pure fucking adrenaline. By far the most violent set of matches in the tournament. They were both over within a minute. Ky' once you dump those worthless hydra missels the ac just runs like a champ. Drain missel evansion and speed make a fucking incredible jump. Sorry magus i tried boy did i try. MOral-sometimes you CAN have too much of a good thing. YOU DONT NEED THE DAMN HYDRAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHA oh man I'm dying from your post, Franko.

Final results are up guys! Go take a look and congrats to the winner!

It's been awhile since I entered an FT that actually got done, I'd forgotten how exciting reading the final results can be.

I won't spoil the winner either, but congratulations to him and everybody else who entered, and thanks for the FT, Penguin Deus and Franko.

It's okay to spoil the results, since people may want to discuss them anyways. I just didn't want to be the one to do it, haha.

Wow, I made it to second place. I was for sure Blu and Boo would mop me up too.
O'well, this has been the closest for me to win an FT. Actually this is my first .

Kudos to Sandman and his Spidermonkey for beating my Oozaru.

So, are we going to start having a debate about how unbalanced and broken the Hand Missiles are now?

Congrats, Sandman! Long live the Monkey!

aww can't joust got 3rd or um.. 4th?

either way thats a hell of alot better than i expect lol wong expect CJ to win? hell no i've played that ac it takes soo many hits and its like uber fast for some reason.

either way im glade my fun little blade jouster got this far :-)

congratz sandman on the pushover win heheh.

Congratulations Sandman!

FT results if it was under UAC rules:

1st Place
AC: Sandman's Spidermonkey
Class: B
Fee: $15
Reward: $86
Earned: $71

2nd Place
AC: Wongumfie's Oozaru
Class: A
Fee: $20
Reward: $53.75
Earned: $33.75

3rd Place
AC: Ky Kiske's Ravager
Class: S
Fee: $25
Reward: $21.50
Earned: - $3.50

4th Place
AC: Booyaka's Can't Joust
Class: C
Fee: $10
Reward: $43
Earned: $33

5th Place
AC: ?
Class: ?
Fee: ?
Reward: $10.75 (left over 5% of the pot)
Earned: ?