Practice all you can!

In collaboration and help from all Cali Ravens ACO presents:

ACO T2


When: Saturday 6th December.
Where: 5630 Woodman Avenue
Van Nuys Ca. 91401

Grand prize: $160or your choice of a Japanese PS2 with a reserve copy of the future Armored Core game.

Time: 10:30am - 7:45pm

Rules:

1 - No OP-I / MG800 / Side and left arm solid shields and 008 core optional slots limit of 16.
2 - Best 3 out of 5 rounds
3 - Double elimination


Entry Fee: $10



Free stuff:
Free game demos.
The usual B.B.Q. and sodas!

Be there at 10:30.

Email me at ericklizandro20@hotmail.com if you're flying in to LAX with your Flight # and time of arrival ... Please do not flight in on Saturday day of the tournament cause I will not be able to pick you up!

Bring your PS2, ACSL game and memorycard and if possible a TV.


Plan ahead for the Silent Line winter event of the year!

Truly yours: Cali Ravens.

ACO AC3 Tournament Results.

Sorry for the delay ACO T2 will be held Saturday 6th 2003 from 10:30am - 7:45pm in the Los Angeles area (If something happens the alternative location is Oceanside)

I will be providing a FREE shuttle bus for ravens who wish to come via Airplane pick up from LAX (Los Angeles International Airport) will be Friday from 8pm thru Saturday 5am ... there will also be a hotel room reserve for Friday night which will be co-paid by whoever gets here that friday... so start planning accordingly.



Feeding the Hungry Ravens Program

Lunch will be served at the tournament but plan to go hungry if you don't bring lunch money ... food and drink stands will be provided for a low cost charge. You need to bring your memorycard and IF POSSIBLE your PS2 and SL game (This is discourage if you are traveling by yourself)
Bringing camaras, video recorders and a VCR are encouraged.



Raven Ride to ACOT2 Program

If you have are over 18 years old, have a car and will have space available in your car to provide a ride to another ac fan and you will for sure be attending ACO T2 ... I strongly encourage you to post here your city of residense so that other members can get a hold of you so that you may share a ride to ACO T2.
You may share the gas money and save.


Safe Raven Plan

Before venturing to ACO T2 please go to the ACO T2 thread for some safety tips and needed safety gear.


Specific location will be posting very soon.

Sounds awesome, Erick. I hope to be able to attend.

Head count:

Who's coming?

$300 - $500 ?!?!?!

That would just about cover my trip out there. Hmmm....

My players and I (possibly +1) will be there, making 3, maybe 4. We deal in lead, friend.

Iron out location specifics ASAP EJ, so people who require more planning have the time to do so.

I'll probably be there, finals permitting; particularly if it's in the LA area. Clay won't be able to make it, unfortunately.

I'll do my best, and I should be able to work it out.

Joust? Kirkwood? Jujuboy? Duneman?

Magus ... you are welcome to attend just plan ahead, I will take care of you as soon as you get here.

I'm going. This will be interesting. Gotta get SL this weekend. Don't know if I'll be good enough to compete, but I will film the event and post it.

T's going to an AC event without us... Someone mark the date please, I'm getting light headed...

Alex, if your at all serious, I CAN take a long weekend... and I have some free flight time thanks to an unwelcome lay over during my trip back from MOC. Two Cali trips this season???

Good lord, if THAT shit goes down then I HAVE to make it.

Hey Bub, do you still have Black Rain saved on your memory card? Send me the config in a message please.

Hey all, I'm on the border of making it and not making it.

The big number one problem is that it's going on during school. That's the big reason for not making it. Basically, that rules driving out as a means of getting there.

Maybe flying, but that's kinda pricey.

The school thing hits me as well...I believe that during the first week of December I have an Proposal Presentation for English worth 1/3 of my total grade...as well as the accompanying Proposal Packet itself which is another 1/3 of my total grade. That doesn't count other stuff like prepping for my history final, with Professor Jones(for local guys who know of the course specifically), among other class activities.

Plus LA is long arse drive to make in the midst of school...I'm only working part time right now as it is...$$$ is another concern. So unless I magically meet and successfully court a multi-millionaire heiress to give me the few hundred for expenses, the chances of me attending are toothpick thin.

The event sounds like fun though, good luck to all. If it is in LA and Oliver shows up I expect someone to beat him by now...

Franko and I are out for this one, too. School doesn't believe in letting me have any fun.

Welp, Magus has a job related trip he has to attend so our flight plans are dead as well... guess we'll only see Cali for MOC. Have fun all.

"T" I'll mail you out all of the stuff on Friday with your Jedi training manual.

Hmmm....Is this college we are talking? I never studied on weekends.

Yup. I'd avoid studying on weekends, but, well, I can't afford to in my major. I get lazy and planes fall out of the air.

Also, for the NorCal guys, it's a VERY long drive (5+ hours one way) so if they have to be back within 2 days for school then it's definitely a hard trip to swing.

The tech stuff is in my blood. No need to study for that. I think some college students study harder than needed. But that's just my opinion and it don't mean shite here. So how many peeps are definetly going?

I'll probably do the Amtrak thing a couple days before and stay with grandparents? Something like that.

Well I have finally got all the details ironed out and the college I was hoping for will give me their conference room that Saturday.

It should be great.

ddd

Disturbing...yes...very. I had to remove it though. Board policies.

Haven't been on a competitive mood for AC. But I'm willing to go just to give my support. And also to see how some players do. As well as to watch those I haven't seen in a while.

Don't know if I have the spare $25 for the entrance fee, but the winnings would definitely help with christmas shopping.

I just got word from my boss, a vac before new year's is a no-go, I have to wait until everyone else gets their vac time due to seniority, oh well, Raf may still go, I'm not sure...

You guys suck ... next ACO Tournament is gonna be so publucized it won't need to depend on these board members for it to succeed.
No offense anyone.

I have talked to Los Angeles' Convention Center about hosting the next ACO T and it seems like it will be a go.

Hey, I tried to wiggle myself out of my work's politics, what do you want me to do, quit to go to your tourney?

I guess I could say I'm sorry that other people have commitments in their lives, EJ. But that would be a lie.

You were depending on a single board to fill up your tournament spots. Granted, this board is a lot better than others who won't be mentioned *coughGFcoughAgetecoughetccough* But you should pimp out your tournament at all boards regardless. So what if you get a wide range of players...more prize money for the winner, and more for you to skim off the top for supplies etc.

Buy some cheap anime/Gundam prizes, etc. and plug it into your advertising at other sites. Get people so excited over big robots that they'll just *censor* with joy. Keep nice prizes for the top spot, give out the extras as you see fit.

I just think that EJ had bad timing with the tourney, and I think timing is more important than the quality of the event.

Address: 5630 Woodman Avenue
Van Nuys Ca. 91401



Be there at 10:30.

Email me at ericklizandro20@hotmail.com if you're flying in to LAX with your Flight # and time of arrival ... Please do not flight in on Saturday day of the tournament cause I will not be able to pick you up!

Bring your PS2, ACSL game and memorycard and if possible a TV.

Good luck to everyone!

me and my players WILL be showing.

Hopefully we're ready.

Results:

Bracketts:


First Round.
*Names in Bold advanced to 2nd Round.

1-Ricky
2-Dana (Orachi)

3-Mike (Alphamus)
4-James

5-Allen (Static)
6-David

7-Tony
8-Pat (Himura Ryuei)

9-Jason (Kurenai)
10-Ben (Kobel)

11-Ninebreaker
12- Kurt (Agrippa)

13-EJRaven
14-Nick (Demon)

15-James D.
16-Rose





2nd Round
Names in Bold advanced to Quaterfinals

1-Ricky
3-Mike (Alphamus)

6-David
7-Tony

10-Ben (Kobel)
11-Ninebreaker

13-EJRaven
16-Rose



Quaterfinals
Names in Bold advanced to the Semifinals


3-Mike (Alphamus)
7-Tony

10-Ben (Kobel)
13-EJRaven




Semifinals
Name in Bold advanced to the Finals

3-Mike (Alphamus)
10-Ben (Kobel)







Looser's bracketts:
Names Underlined advanced to 2nd Round.

1st Round.

2-Dana (Orachi)
4-James

5-Allen (Static)
9-Jason (Kurenai)

8-Pat (Himura Ryuei)
12-Kurt (Agrippa)

14-Nick (Demon)
15-James D.



2nd Round.
Names Underlined advanced to 3rd Round.

1-Ricky
4-James

6-David
9-Jason (Kurenai)

11-Ninebreaker
8-Pat (Himura Ryuei)

14-Nick (Demon)
16-Rose



3rd Round.
Names Underlined advanced to 4th Round.

1-Ricky
9-Jason (Kurenai)

11-Ninebreaker
16-Rose


4th Round.
Name underlined advanced to Loser'sBrackett's Semifinals

7-Tony
9-Jason (Kurenai)

13-EJRaven
16-Rose


Semifinals
Name underlined advanced to LB's Finals.

7-Tony
13-EJRaven


Loser's Brackett's Finals

3-Mike (Alphamus)
13-EJRaven




ACO T2 Finals

Kobel vs EJRaven

Round 1: The Snow Field (Kobel 4303-0)
Kobel's Tank GNL accuracy was devastating for my Quad which fought to its best and tried to keep away from the rusing OB strategies Kobel's tank had in store for his opponents

Round 2: Arena (EJ 3203-902)
My quad's speed with addition to Kobel running out of GNL shots early in the round were the factors that determined this round.
Kobel's desperate attempt to use my dropped multi-missiles after running out of GNL shots resulted in a cat and mouse chase that lasted the full 5 minutes giving me the round.

Round 3: Underground Factory (Kobel 7044-0)
The shoebox was no more than suicide for a my quad, Kobel well connected GNL shots found their home and landed one by one, Kobel's MG500 + Sniper gun went to work and delivered the goods by finishing and tearing my quad apart, the defense of Kobel's tank and the lack of space for missile and running strategies made this round one of the most cruel rounds to watch.

Round 4: Jungle (3769-0)
With an 800 AP lead and 2:35 minutes to go winning became a reality as I was hoping the title might be coming home with me but the dead-on accuracy and the well defense tank was just too much for the overweight quad of mine. At the end there was only one AC standing ... Congrats Kobel ACO T2 Tournament Winner!




Results first posted by Hiruma Ryuei
Regular Tournament

#1 Ben/Kobel
AC Name - Holy Avenger
Head - BEE
Core - IKS
Arms - CASK
Legs - SHUT
Boost - None
FCS - WS-3
Gen - ROZ
Rad - KD99
Inside - DD/20
Extension - TB/UN5
Back L - GNL-15
Back R - None
Arm R - MG-1000
Arm L - SRFL-50
Optionals - S/SCR, E/SCR, LFCS++, BRK
Commentary - While his matchups partially influenced his victory (he played against none of the Karasasa designs, Mike was playing that lightweight, etc.), in my opinion, Ben had the best showing of any of the participants. Although he choked a bit on a few matches with Jason, Erick, and Mike, he overcame to win the tourney with a minimal number of rounds lost, and without ever visiting the loser's bracket.

#2 Erick/EJ Raven
AC Name - USS Raven SL
HEAD - CHD-SKYEYE
CORE - MCM-MI/008
ARMS - MAL-GALE
LEGS - MLF-MX/KNOT
BOOSTER - MBT-OX/002
FCS - PLS-SRA02
GENERATOR - CGP-ROZ
RADIATOR - RIX-CR14
INSIDE - MWI-DD/10
EXTENSION - MWEM-R/36
BACK UNIT R - MM16/1
BACK UNIT L - CWC-GNL-15
ARM UNIT R - MWG-MG/500
ARM UNIT L - CWGG-GRSL-20
Optionals - OP-S-SCR, OP-E/SCR, OP-S/STAB, OP-E/CND, OP-LFCS++, OP-L/BRK, OP-CLPU
Commentary: EJ's performance was probably as spectacular as Ben's, and other than Ben himself, no pilot he faced defeated him completely. In truth, all of the top five pilots performed spectacularly, but EJ's skill, tenacity, and even a little bit of luck helped put him above the others.

#3 Mike/Alphemus
AC Name - S*T*AC
Head - MISTEYE
Core - RAY
Arms - HADRO
Legs - ORDER
Boost - MARE
FCS - SRA02
Gen - CGP-ROZ
Rad - SA44
Inside - DD/10
Extension - R/30
Back L - HAVM24/2
Back R - None
Arm R - GS/56
Arm L - GRSL20
Optionals - E/SCR, S/SCR, STAB, CND, ECMP, TRN, CLPU
Commentary: Mike's performance, in many ways, was perhaps even more impressive than EJ's, simply because his AC was much more limited in options. Yet Mike triumphed over all beneath him with true style, defeating opponents that, in my opinion, EJ was lucky not to have faced. Ben brought him down to the losers bracket in the semifinals, as his design was not designed to face Ben's burly tank; then Erick narrowly defeated Mike in a 3-0 matchup that left all of our jaws on the floor. Had he piloted a different design, Mike could have taken it all.

#4 Tony/SHADOW
AC Name - BLUEBOY
Head - SKYEYE
Core - RAY
Arms - HADRO
Legs - LGSK
Boost - 002
FCS - SRA02
Gen - ROZ
Rad - SA44
Inside - DD/10
Extension - None
Back L - OC/15
Back R - None
Arm R - MWG-MG/1000
Arm L - GRSL/20
Optionals - S-SCR, E-SCR, STAB, CND, TRN, ECMP, CLPU
Commentary - Tony's aerial gameplay was nothing short of superb, and having witnessed it firsthand, I can say that he can make that little AC of his do things with its energy bar that I never thought possible. Delivering fiery death from above with his MG and grenade rifle, he narrowly pulled a win from Jason to take the 4th place spot.

#5 Jason/Kurenai
AC Name - Calamity Jane
Head - SKYEYE
Core - 008
Arms - HADRO
Legs - KNOT
Boost - 002
FCS - WS-3
Gen - CGP-ROZ
Rad - SA44
Inside - DD/10
Extension - None
Back L - LQ-15
Back R - GNL-15
Arm R - RF/150
Arm L - RFL/150
Optionals - E/SCR, S/SCR, LFCS++, E++, E/RTE, CLPU, BRK
Commentary - Like myself, Jason prepared for antitank warfare, and it proved to be worth the effort in his bout with Ben in the first round, forcing Ben into the fifth match in a stage of Jason's choosing. Unfortunately, it wasn't quite enough, and some tactical errors forced Jason into the losers' bracket early. However, Jason refused to admit defeat and punished enemy after enemy with heavy cannon fire, using his LQ-15 like the S/NIGHT of old, only failing when Tony caught on to Jason's tactics.

#6 Rosanne/RoseGrl211
AC Name - Tagger
Head - MISTEYE
Core - 008
Arms - HADRO
Legs - MGHS
Boost - UN8
FCS - SRA02
Gen - CGP-ROZ
Rad - SA77
Inside - DD/10
Extension - None
Back L - None
Back R - None
Arm R - KARASAWA
Arm L - SRFL/70
Optionals - S/SCR, E/SCR, STAB, LFCS++, E/RTE, TQ/CE
Commentary - The highest ranking Karasawa gunner in the tourney, although I'm going to be a bit bitter and say that perhaps some of the people below her could have defeated her. However, that's not to say that she isn't a very competent pilot, and if she had kept her cool, she could have possibly even defeated Erick and Mike and gone to face Ben in the finals.

#7 Albert/Ninebreaker
Head - 007
Core - RAY
Arms - GALE
Legs - KNOT
Boost - 002
FCS - SRA02
Gen - VE905
Rad - SA44
Inside - DD10
Extension - R/24
Back L - DM24/1
Back R - LIC/100
Arm R - HG/200H
Arm L - NHZL30
Optionals - E/SCR, S/SCR, STAB, CND, ECMP, TRN, CLPU
Commentary - If you haven't guessed, the name of his game was heat, and he certainly brought it to me, emerging victorious in a tough 3-2 match, winning the fourth round by taking the AP lead in the last 13 seconds, and the fifth by destruction with 800 AP remaining. Actually, I'd go so far to say that Albert's and my match was the best match that wasn't recorded. Anyway, he more than proved his worth, although his overheater AC fared worse against Rose and her higher heat resistance.

#8 Ricky
AC Name - Gozaimasu
Head - CHD-09-OXI
Core - CCL-01-NER
Arms - CAL-44-EAS
Legs - CLL-SECTOR
Boost - CBT-01-UN8
FCS - AOX-ANA
Gen - CGP-ROZ
Rad - RMR-ICICLE
Inside - None
Extension - None
Back L - MM-AD/20
Back R - None
Arm R - MWG-MG/1000
Arm L - MWG-HGL-100
Optionals - S/SCR, E/SCR, E/CND, L/BRK, L/TRN, CLPU
Commentary - This placing is entirely because of good seeding. He had the luckiest seeding in the tournament, and as you can tell by his design, would not have advanced very far had he played against anyone except for the bottom six players.

#9 Nick/Demon
AC Name - Reality Breaker
Head - 008
Core - 008
Arms - HADRO
Legs - ORDER
Boost - CBT-FLEET
FCS - SRA02
Gen - CGP-ROZ
Rad - CR14
Inside - DD/10
Extension - R/24
Back L - MM16/1
Back R - M30/3
Arm R - RF-160
Arm L - HZL50
Optionals - E-SCR, STAB, CND, LFCS++, CLPU, AXL
Commentary - I didn't really catch many of his matches, but from what Ben told me, Nick played skillfully, but had the drawback of letting the match get to him, causing him to make careless mistakes.

#10 Pat/Hiruma Ryuei
AC Name - Soultaker
Head - SKYEYE
Core - GROA
Arms - TIN
Legs - VOLAR
Boost - OX/002
FCS - SRA02
Gen - CGP-ROZ
Rad - CR14
Inside - DD/10
Extension - None
Back L - WAKE
Back R - WAKE
Arm R - KARASAWA
Arm L - HZL50
Optionals - E/SCR, S/SCR, ECMP, L/TRN, E++, E/RTE
Commentary - Out of all the ACs in the tourney, I'd have to say mine was one of the most broken allowable designs. I suppose that's a bad thing Anyway, it's hard to comment on myself, just that the matches I lost (versus Tony and Albert) were both defeats that I believe were legitimate. I found the GROA and CR14 (without CLPU) to be inadequate in defending against Albert's high heat design, and Tony was clearly my better, although I can partially blame his large amount of practice against Rose's Ksaw design. Oh well, I guess. However, I believe that I would have been able to defeat both Ricky and Mike had I faced them.

#11 David/Sejik
AC Name - Ancient
Head - MISTEYE
Core - STO
Arms - SOL
Legs - SNSK
Boost - FLEET
FCS - SRA02
Gen - CGP-ROZ
Rad - CR10
Inside - None
Extension - None
Back L - None
Back R - None
Arm R - KARASAWA
Arm L - HZL50
Optionals - S/SCR, E/SCR, CND, E++, CLPU
Commentary - David seemed to be the bearer of bad luck. He fought against Allen in the first round, handily defeating him, although Allen's mobility proved to be trouble. His lack of missile defense proved to be a hinderance as well, but that didn't keep him from advancing. However, his luck ran out there. He fought Tony next, who he could not keep a bead on. And immediately after, he faced Jason on his rampage through the loser's bracket, sealing his fate.

#12 James P/Noroi
AC Name - Cursed Wings
Head - MISTEYE
Core - 002
Arms - MACH
Legs - EDGE
Boost - OX/002
FCS - ND-8
Gen - VE905
Rad - CR14
Inside - None
Extension - None
Back L - None
Back R - None
Arm R - KARASAWA
Arm L - None
Options - STAB, CND, ECMP, E++, TQ/CE
Commentary - I can't comment too much, since I didn't see him play and can only see his matchups and wins/losses. However, I will say that his design obviously did not lend well to serious play with its poor defense. Also, an unlucky seed against Mike in the first round led to an early shot to the loser's bracket. Although he managed to defeat Dana, whose design was even worse, he ended up only feeding Ricky's climb to 8th place.

#13 Kurt/Agrippa
AC Name - LOKI
Head - BEE
Core - GROA
Arms - BOLD
Legs - TRIDENT
Boost - None
FCS - SRA02
Gen - CGP-ROZ
Rad - KD99
Inside - DD/20
Extension - AEGIS
Back L - LIC/40
Back R - CNG/500
Arm R - SRF/80R
Arm L - MIRROR
Optionals - To Be Updated
Commentary - Kurt's design was a bit of an experiment with a new kind of tank, and a decent concept at that. However, he got seeded extremely poorly, facing Albert the first round, who cooked his AC easily, even through the shields. Next, he went up against myself, and although he gave it his all, my AC was a tank-killer that he was ill-equipped to face. It's truly unfortunate for Kurt, whose skills at AC are well-known.

#14 Allen/Static
AC Name - N/A
Head - MISTEYE
Core - 008
Arms - CAL-44-EAS
Legs - FLUID
Boost - MARE
FCS - SRA02
Gen - CGP-ROZ
Rad - SA44
Inside - DD/10
Extension - R/30
Back L - VM36/4
Back R - None
Arm R - RF/300
Arm L - GRSL20
Optionals - S-SCR, E-SCR, STAB, CND, AXL, TRN, CLPU
Commentary - I can't really say much about his matches, although I kinda remember watching some. It's not that he really lacked skill, it's just that everyone he played was better. Or something.

#15 Dana/ORACHI
AC Name - YAGAME
Head - RACHIS
Core - 002
Arms - GALE
Legs - MAK
Boost - None
FCS - SRA02
Gen - VE905
Rad - ICICLE
Inside - None
Extension - None
Back L - DC-150
Back R - DC-150
Arm R - MG-1000
Arm L - HZL50
Optionals - S/SCR, E/SCR, STAB, CND, AXL, TRN, CLPU
Commentary - DC-150 on a hover. Those four words spell mountains for this guy's skill.

#16 James D/Scarface
AC Name - N/A
Head - SKYEYE
Core - RAY
Arms - REX
Legs - HUESO
Boost - FLEET
FCS - WS-1
Gen - CGP-ROZ
Rad - CR10
Inside - DD/10
Extension - OX/EB
Back L - To Be Updated
Back R - TBU
Arm R - TBU
Arm L - TBU
Optionals - TBU
Commentary: Yo, Scarface, please PM me or EJ with the rest of your AC. Thanks.

Congrats to Kobel who won ACO T2!

His tank went undefeated and earned him the top stop!

Videos, pictures and more details to be posted!

yeah Kobel! good job by all, I can't wait for the movies!

Ugh...everyone better have something to take out a tank in future tournaments. Else Ben will win 'em, unless Oliver is there withhis crazy Karasawa skills.

Sounds like you guys had fun, good stuff.

Sounds like you guys had a blast, just too bad I couldn't go.... DAMN YOU FINAL PROJECTS!!! DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!

Congratulations to Kobel - This come as no surprise to me. In my mind, Ben was the best tank player in MOC last year. His traditional tank skills are truly amazing. Top notch, proving time and time that he is one of the best in Cali.

Congratulations to Alphemus and his "Urakai" - Mike proves again that he is a high caliber player, taking third seat again in a Southern California tournament. His prodigies, Tony and Rose, right behind him in the ranks. Congratulations to those two--the future stars of AC.

Congratulations to EJRaven - Erick proves again that he is a top notch player. His unorthadox play never ceases to amaze me. I had a feeling his savy techniques and strategies will bring him far in competition. And it has for him, once more.

And congratulations to all! Wish I could've been there to watch some of the best go at it, but unfortunately I was in the San Diego area (of all places). If only, the location were to be in Oceanside I may have been able to make it. I'm sure I missed out on some memoreable matches.

well, although i didn't do that great overall, i'm very happy with my outcome


3-2 against EJ, 3-0 against scarface, 3-2 against rose...i gave a run for the money



can't wait till the next one.

ddd

Yeah, I played you Nick on the side, you are DEFINATELY top notch. running into Rose, and EJ both was some bad luck, and your matches against Rose were really close. I mean, MAN, you beat her in PARKING LOT! That was some good shit right there.

IIRC, you beat me even the first match we played, didn't you? You got the skills kid, I hope you keep it up, I bet you'll be placing higher next time, thats for sure.

Demon

Demon's performance was one of my favorites if not one of the best!
Demon's AC and strategies remind me of my early days of bi-ped glory, this kid plays AC with his heart in one hand and the controller on the other, Demon's future is nothing but uncertain and without any hesitation I predict that with proper human competition and sufficient practice he will become one of the strongest AC players in Southern Cali .... MOC4 better watch out for this newcommer! Demon has the potential, it's up to him to put his mind into it and accept his future.

thanks, guys ...well, limiting myself against the A.I. paid off...




next time...i won't run out of ammo! (like i did against rose, and kurt and ben in free play...)

is there an idea of when videos are going to be posted?


thanks.

Once Joust gets done with the finals and Kobel can upload them to the MOC videos server .. now where are the pictures that we took over at the tourny and who has them .. please let me know.